Question from Sandeep Sandy, posted in Conversations With
Avant-garde Sages):
What is an
Avant-garde Sage?
Robert
Saltzman:
There are no
"masters." All of us--Buddha, Ramana, Nisargadatta, Dalai Lama, are
just ordinary human beings. We tell you that explicitly, but you refuse to
believe it. Ask yourself why you refuse to believe it.
A guru is just
a human being like yourself. "Guru" simply means teacher. There is a
time in life to have a teacher, perhaps, but that person should never be
worshiped. Listen to the message-but kill the messenger.
Reincarnation
is nonsense. You are having enough trouble and suffering right now in this
life. Why would you ever want another? If you will simply awaken to this very
moment, you will not even want another moment, much less another life. You will
not want anything.
There is no
path, and no one to walk it. Gradual awakening is a fantasy which imagines time
and space which do not exist. One awakens to truth now. Only now.
You are
standing in a river dying of thirst. All you desire is here now. You are that.
Stop riding a donkey looking for a donkey.
Scripture is
dead. Only you are alive. Forget words, and find out what you are. Everything
you need to know will be apparent to you if you simply become silent. Don't
listen to what others believe, just be yourself.
Kiran Bhagat:
I really like
this.. May I ask. How does one awaken to truth?
Robert
Saltzman:
Hello, Kiran,
As
Krishnamurti once said, "There is no how to be free."
When views,
opinions, and other such thoughts arise, just let them go. They don't mean
anything important. Find the silence within, and you will instantly know
everything you need to know in that moment. Each moment is a new moment. Just
be quiet, and you will understand.
Kiran Bhagat:
Sir. I am very
keen to understand this. However, I am truly a novice. I simply feel that when
I try this, it is just another part of me pretending to be the silence. How
does 'one' know the difference?
Robert
Saltzman:
Very good
question, Kiran. I was interviewed about this kind of thing at length in
Nonduality Magazine, and instead of trying to reply here, I will refer you to
that interview. Perhaps there will be something in it for you. I admire your
honesty and desire to be free. That desire is the only real desire--the only
one worth pursuing.
http://www.nondualitymagazine.org/nonduality_magazine.4.robertsaltzman.interview.htm
Kiran Bhagat:
Thank you
Sir.I shall read this. May I ask another question please. It is about the human
condition. I am a Clinician. In my daily practice, I see a great deal of human
pain and suffering. I work in Africa. We see the effects of famine, drought,
malnutrition and frank destitution. I have asked this questions many a time to
others on this site and elsewhere. But I am not quenched by their explanations.
How is there is such pain? What deserves a child to go through severe hunger
and gut wrenching suffering?
Robert
Saltzman:
Yes, I am a
clinician too--a psychotherapist--and also have to witness much suffering,
including suicide, intense hatred, total confusion, and other such mental
illnesses. We human beings suffer a lot in this life due to the animal bodies
and animal brains which constitute our ordinary presences. No one
"deserves" to suffer. Suffering is the price we pay for embodiment.
We clinicians are those who attempt to alleviate this suffering by means of
helping techniques which we have studied and learned. That is our work, and we
must suffer to perform it. Embrace that kind of suffering, Kiran, it is a gift.
Kiran Bhagat:
Sir, in the
greater scheme, with the awareness you speak of that comes about, how does one
attempt to understand why there is such dis-ease. I read from these and other
sites - the use of words such as destiny and fate/karma etc. As a physician,
this is a difficult pill to swallow in the midst of dis-ease. Take for example,
child euthanasia, in the context of pain and suffering bound contextually with
lack of financial resources in a setting of a developing world. Whilst one
attempts to dissect out the awareness that you speak of that transcends all
activites - it seems difficult to practice at such a relative world of daily
clinical activity. Am I mistaken?
Robert
Saltzman:
No, you are
not mistaken. We must live ordinary lives, and, within those lives, we must
continue to suffer what we suffer, including the sadness you feel when
witnessing the suffering of others.
Words like
"destiny" or "karma" do not explain anything. They are just
words. Words like that are like giving candy to a baby to stop her from crying.
Foolish people imagine that "awakening" means the end of suffering,
and imagine that there are so-called "masters" who have somehow
"transcended" being human beings with human lives. This is nonsense. Anyone
who tries to "awaken" while holding on to a selfish motive ("I
don't want to suffer") will never awaken. When one of us is suffering, we
are all suffering. When someone thinks "I am this, but you are that,"
he or she splits the universe in two.
I see that you
are a person of great heart and a love of humanity. Those are beautiful
attributes. Stay with them. While you are staying with them, learn to be silent
inside. I mean silence in the midst of suffering. If you will do that, Kiran,
you will come to understand everything you need to understand. I promise you
this.
Kiran Bhagat:
Sir your words
strike a deep chord.Almost axiomatic. It would seem from your comments that
most of what has been written is in vain? I am sure you will agree how
difficult it is to seek that silence when seeing the pain. May I ask - this is
not the same as seeing life as deterministic/fatalistic? That what one sees is
part of a greater scheme of things?
Robert
Saltzman:
Don't get lost
in logic. Let the mystery remain.
Kiran Bhagat:
Sir, perhaps
it is being too left brained. But is it not logic and reason that has prevailed
over much else that shrouded humanities development in the sciences?
Robert
Saltzman: Yes, Kiran. Logic is important, and science has done wonderful
things. I appreciate that level of understanding, and even spend time working
on that level. But there are other levels of being--countless ones. For some of
them, the price of admission is leaving logical mind at the door, and
participating in wonder, mystery, and not-knowing.
Kiran Bhagat:
Forgive me for
labouring the issue Sir. I simply seek insight. As one such as I, that seems to
operate at a very basic plane of practical performance; how is one informed in
the use or access of other planes of consciousness. As a Clinician you will
appreciate the abandonment that occurs with use of this word- much like the
abused term 'quantum'. I humbly seek your reply.
Robert
Saltzman:
I do forgive
you, Kiran. As I said, I admire your honesty and desire to be free.
It is not a
matter of trying to do anything, Kiran, except to allow thoughts, opinions,
feelings, and views to pass away as they arise without clinging to them or
spinning them into narratives.
For example,
if I see a child suffering, as you often must in your work, I would feel what I
feel, but then allow those feelings to pass away. I would not cling to the
feelings. I would not justify them. I would not take those feelings and
abstract them into a recital of the injustice of the world, or an account of
man's inhumanity to man. This does not mean that you ignore suffering, but that
you do not add to it with your own imagination.
If you will
simply do this with whatever arises, pain, pleasure, or whatever--see it, feel
it, and let it go--sooner or later a quiet state will arise with no particular
effort to be quiet or to produce any particular state of mind. In that
quietness, you will understand, in a wordless way, that which you need to
understand.